Trump loyalist tells Jan. 6 committee: ‘We basically were just following what he said’; ex-president tried to contact upcoming witness, says Cheney
The latest Jan. 6 committee hearing offered hours of compelling testimony on Tuesday, but it was Rep. Liz Cheney raising the question of witness tampering by Donald Trump in her closing statement that stole the spotlight.
According to the vice chair, the former president recently attempted to contact a person who was talking to the panel about its investigation of the 2021 attack on the Capitol by a horde of Trump supporters.
“We will take any effort to influence witness testimony very seriously,” said Cheney (R-Wyo.). She said the committee had notified the Justice Department.
US Representative Liz Cheney speaks at the opening of a hearing on "the January 6th Investigation," on Capitol Hill on July 12, 2022, in Washington, DC. (SAUL LOEB/)
Tuesday’s hearing was divided into two sessions, with the first hour focused on Trump and his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani refusing to accept the outcome of the 2020 election. Memos and text messages revealed details of an “unhinged” late-night meeting at the White House with Trump’s outside lawyers and advisers suggesting the military seize state voting machines in a last-ditch effort to pursue his false claims of voter fraud before the defeated president summoned a mob to the U.S. Capitol.
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The second portion of the hearing revealed how average Americans, as well as far-right extremists, answered Trump’s call to come for a big rally in Washington. As dozens of lawsuits and his claims of voter fraud fizzled, Trump met late into the night of Dec. 18 with attorneys at the White House before tweeting the rally invitation: “Be there, will be wild!” Members of the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers groups are now facing rare sedition charges over the siege.
“The problem of politicians whipping up mob violence to destroy fair elections is the oldest domestic enemy of constitutional democracy,” said Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) in opening remarks.
Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) speaks as the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol holds a hearing at the Capitol in Washington, D.C. on Tuesday, July 12, 2022. (J. Scott Applewhite/)
The panel showed graphic and violent text messages and played videos of right-wing figures, including Alex Jones and others laying out that Jan. 6 would be the day they fight for the president and try to prevent Congress from certifying Joe Biden’s victory.
The committee also disclosed an unsent tweet composed by Trump that promised a “March to the Capitol after” the Jan. 6 “Stop the Steal” rally near the White House — a message that appeared to confirm the former president planned to lead the attack on Congress.
Testifying before the panel was Stephen Ayres from Ohio, who described being swept up by Trump’s bogus claims and believing as he marched to the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021 that Trump would join them there because there was still a chance the election could be overturned.
Stephen Ayres, who pleaded guilty last in June 2022 to disorderly and disruptive conduct in a restricted building, testifies as the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol holds a hearing at the Capitol in Washington, Tuesday, July 12, 2022. (Jacquelyn Martin/)
Ayres testified that he and his associates hadn’t planned to go to the Capitol until Trump’s speech “got everyone riled up.”
“We basically were just following what he said,” Ayres said. “We were hanging on every word.”
He left the Capitol after Trump sent a tweet just after 4 p.m., telling his supporters to go home.
“To me, if he had done that earlier in the day, we maybe wouldn’t be here in this bad of a situation or something,” Ayres said of Trump’s tweet.
His message to others: “Take the blinders off, make sure you step back and see what’s going on before it’s too late.”
Ayres is scheduled to be sentenced in September after pleading guilty to a misdemeanor in the riot. Asked by Rep. Liz Cheney if he still believes the election was stolen, Ayres said, “Not so much now.”
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He’s among about 840 people who have been charged with federal crimes related to the Jan. 6 riot. More than 330 of them have pleaded guilty, mostly to misdemeanor charges punishable by no more than one year in prison. More than 200 have been sentenced.
Pat Cipollone, the former White House counsel under President Donald Trump, arrives at an interview room in the O'Neill House Office Building to answer questions from investigators with the Jan. 6 Select Committee, on Capitol Hill in Washington, Friday, July 8, 2022. (J. Scott Applewhite/)
The panel also featured new video testimony from Pat Cipollone, Trump’s former White House counsel, recalling when he and other administration officials scrambled to intervene in the meeting Trump was having with allies that included Giuliani, outside lawyer Sidney Powell and ex-national security adviser Michael Flynn. It erupted in shouting and screaming as they pushed for having voting machines seized and White House officials pushed back on the idea.
“Where is the evidence?” Cipollone demanded of the false claims of voter fraud.
Former President Donald Trump speaks from the podium during a campaign rally, on May 1, 2022, in Greenwood, Neb. (Kenneth Ferriera/)
“What they were proposing, I thought, was nuts,” testified White House official Eric Herschmann.
But Trump was intrigued and essentially told his White House lawyers that at least Powell and outside allies were trying to do something.
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“You guys are not tough enough,” Giuliani said, and then called the White House attorneys a “bunch of p---ies.”
Proud Boys members Zachary Rehl, left, and Ethan Nordean, left, walk toward the U.S. Capitol in Washington, in support of President Donald Trump, Jan. 6, 2021. (Carolyn Kaster/)
This week’s session comes after former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson provided stunning accounts under oath of an angry Trump who knowingly sent armed supporters to the Capitol on Jan. 6 and then refused to quickly call them off as violence erupted, siding with the rioters as they searched menacingly for Vice President Mike Pence.
This was the only committee hearing scheduled for this week. An expected prime-time hearing Thursday was postponed.
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With News Wire Services
