Giuliani: Trump could have shot Comey and still couldn’t be indicted for it

WASHINGTON ― Candidate Donald Trump bragged that he could shoot someone on New York’s Fifth Avenue and not lose any support, and now President Donald Trump’s lawyer says Trump could shoot the FBI director in the Oval Office and still not be prosecuted for it.

“In no case can he be subpoenaed or indicted,” Rudy Giuliani told HuffPost Sunday, claiming a president’s constitutional powers are that broad. “I don’t know how you can indict while he’s in office. No matter what it is.”

Giuliani said impeachment was the initial remedy for a president’s illegal behavior ― even in the extreme hypothetical case of Trump having shot former FBI Director James Comey to end the Russia investigation rather than just firing him.

“If he shot James Comey, he’d be impeached the next day,” Giuliani said. “Impeach him, and then you can do whatever you want to do to him.”

Norm Eisen, the White House ethics lawyer under President Barack Obama and now a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, said the silliness of Giuliani’s claim illustrates how mistaken Trump’s lawyers are about presidential power.

“A president could not be prosecuted for murder? Really?” he said. “It is one of many absurd positions that follow from their argument. It is self-evidently wrong.”

Eisen and other legal scholars have concluded that the constitution offers no blanket protection for a president from criminal prosecution. “The foundation of America is that no person is above the law,” he said. “A president can under extreme circumstances be indicted, but we’re facing extreme circumstances.”

A president could not be prosecuted for murder? Really? It is one of many absurd positions that follow from their argument. It is self-evidently wrong.Norm Eisen, former White House ethics lawyer under President Barack Obama

Giuliani’s comments came a day after The New York Times revealed that Trump’s lawyers in January made their case to special counsel Robert Mueller that Trump could not possibly have obstructed justice because he has the ability to shut down any investigation at any time.

“He could, if he wished, terminate the inquiry, or even exercise his power to pardon if he so desired,” Jay Sekulow and John Dowd wrote in a 20-page letter. Dowd has since left Trump’s legal team, replaced by Giuliani.

The letter also admits that Trump “dictated” a statement that was then released by his son, Donald Trump Jr., regarding a meeting held at Trump Tower in June 2016 between top Trump campaign officials and Russians with links to that country’s spy agencies.

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Rudy Giuliani and President Donald Trump through the years
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Rudy Giuliani and President Donald Trump through the years
Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump embraces former New York City Mayor Rudolf Giuliani at a campaign rally in Greenville, North Carolina, U.S., September 6, 2016. REUTERS/Mike Segar
U.S. President Donald Trump listens to former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani during a meeting with cyber security experts in the Roosevelt Room of the White House in Washington, U.S., January 31, 2017. REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque
U.S. President-elect Donald Trump stands with former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani before their meeting at Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey, U.S., November 20, 2016. REUTERS/Mike Segar
U.S. President Donald Trump listens to former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani during a meeting with cyber security experts in the Roosevelt Room of the White House in Washington, U.S., January 31, 2017. REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque TPX IMAGES OF THE DAY
U.S. President-elect Donald Trump stands with former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani before their meeting at Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey, U.S., November 20, 2016. REUTERS/Mike Segar TPX IMAGES OF THE DAY
U.S. President-elect Donald Trump greets former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani before their meeting at Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey, U.S., November 20, 2016. REUTERS/Mike Segar
Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani shakes hands with Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump at a campaign rally in Charlotte, North Carolina, U.S., August 18, 2016. REUTERS/Carlo Allegri
Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani and Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump arrive to speak to police gathered at Fraternal Order of Police lodge during a campaign event in Statesville, North Carolina, U.S., August 18, 2016. REUTERS/Carlo Allegri
U.S. Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump (R) and former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani (2nd L) arrive for ceremonies to mark the 15th anniversary of the September 11 attacks at the National 9/11 Memorial in New York, New York, United States September 11, 2016. REUTERS/Brian Snyder
Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump walks with former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani (L) and his son Eric Trumo (R) through the new Trump International Hotel in Washington, D.C., U.S., September 16, 2016. REUTERS/Mike Segar
Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani shakes hands with Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump at a campaign rally in Charlotte, North Carolina, U.S., August 18, 2016. REUTERS/Carlo Allegri
Republican U.S. presidential nominee Donald Trump and former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani visit the Milwaukee County War Memorial Center in Milwaukee, Wisconsin August 16, 2016. REUTERS/Eric Thayer
Republican U.S. presidential nominee Donald Trump talks with Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke Jr. (L) and former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani (R) at the Milwaukee County War Memorial Center in Milwaukee, Wisconsin August 16, 2016. REUTERS/Eric Thayer
Republican U.S. presidential nominee Donald Trump greets former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani during a campaign rally at Crown Arena in Fayetteville, North Carolina August 9, 2016. REUTERS/Eric Thayer
Republican U.S. presidential nominee Donald Trump and former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani visit Allegra Print and Imaging in Fayetteville, North Carolina, U.S., August 9, 2016. REUTERS/Eric Thayer
Republican U.S. presidential nominee Donald Trump and former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani visit Allegra Print and Imaging in Fayetteville, North Carolina August 9, 2016. REUTERS/Eric Thayer
Republican U.S. presidential nominee Donald Trump and former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani visit Allegra Print and Imaging in Fayetteville, North Carolina, U.S., August 9, 2016. REUTERS/Eric Thayer
Former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani greets Republican U.S. presidential nominee Donald Trump at the Trask Coliseum at University of North Carolina in Wilmington, North Carolina, U.S., August 9, 2016. REUTERS/Eric Thayer
Former New York City Mayor Rudy Guiliani sits with his wife Judith (R) and Donald Trump Jr. at the Republican National Convention in Cleveland, Ohio, U.S. July 18, 2016. REUTERS/Jim Young
Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani (L), Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump (C) and New Jersey Governor Chris Christie (R) stand together during a memorial service at the National 9/11 Memorial September 11, 2016 in New York. The United States on Sunday commemorated the 15th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. / AFP / Bryan R. Smith (Photo credit should read BRYAN R. SMITH/AFP/Getty Images)
NEW YORK, NY - SEPTEMBER 11: Republican presidental nominee Donald Trump (R) and former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani (L) arrive at September 11 Commemoration Ceremony at the National September 11 Memorial & Museum on September 11, 2016 in New York City. Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump attended the September 11 Commemoration Ceremony. (Photo by Justin Sullivan/Getty Images)
NEW YORK, NY - SEPTEMBER 11: Republican presidental nominee Donald Trump (C) and former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani arrive at September 11 Commemoration Ceremony at the National September 11 Memorial & Museum on September 11, 2016 in New York City. Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump attended the September 11 Commemoration Ceremony. (Photo by Justin Sullivan/Getty Images)
Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani introduces Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump before a rally at the Travis County Exposition Center on August 23, 2016 in Austin, Texas. / AFP / SUZANNE CORDEIRO (Photo credit should read SUZANNE CORDEIRO/AFP/Getty Images)
Former Mayor of New York City Rudy Giuliani greets Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump just after introducing him at a rally at the Florida State Fairgrounds in Tampa, Florida, on Wednesday, August 24, 2016. (Photo by Loren Elliott/Tampa Bay Times/Getty Images)
Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani, left, welcomes Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump on stage during a campaign rally on August 18, 2016, at the Charlotte Convention Center in Charlotte, N.C. (Jeff Siner/Charlotte Observer/TNS via Getty Images)
BRIARCLIFF MANOR, NY - JULY 14: (L-R) Donald Trump, Joe Torre, Ali Torre, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, Rudolph W. Giuliani and Billy Crystal attend the 2008 Joe Torre Safe at Home Foundation Golf Classic at Trump National Golf Club on July 14, 2008 in Briarcliff Manor, New York. (Photo by Rick Odell/Getty Images)
BRIARCLIFF MANOR, NY - JULY 14: (L-R) Rudolph W. Giuliani, Donald Trump, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, Bill Clinton, Joe Torre, and Billy Crystal attend the 2008 Joe Torre Safe at Home Foundation Golf Classic at Trump National Golf Club on July 14, 2008 in Briarcliff Manor, New York. (Photo by Rick Odell/Getty Images)
UNITED STATES - MAY 04: Mayor Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump at news conference at the GM Building, where CBS announced that Bryant Gumbel will be the host of its new morning news program, 'This Morning.' Show, to be launched Nov. 1, will broadcast from Trump's International Plaza Building., (Photo by Andrew Savulich/NY Daily News Archive via Getty Images)
UNITED STATES - MAY 04: Mayor Rudy Giuliani is flanked by CBS President Leslie Moonves (left) and Donald Trump at news conference at the GM Building, where CBS announced that Bryant Gumbel will be the host of its new morning news program, 'This Morning.' Show, to be launched Nov. 1, will broadcast from Trump's International Plaza Building., (Photo by Andrew Savulich/NY Daily News Archive via Getty Images)
UNITED STATES - MAY 04: Mayor Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump at news conference at the GM Building, where CBS announced that Bryant Gumbel will be the host of its new morning news program, 'This Morning.' Show, to be launched Nov. 1, will broadcast from Trump's International Plaza Building., (Photo by Andrew Savulich/NY Daily News Archive via Getty Images)
UNITED STATES - MAY 04: Mayor Rudy Giuliani considers a question as Donald Trump looks on at news conference at the GM Building, where CBS announced that Bryant Gumbel will be the host of its new morning news program, 'This Morning.' Show, to be launched Nov. 1, will broadcast from Trump's International Plaza Building., (Photo by Andrew Savulich/NY Daily News Archive via Getty Images)
NEW YORK, UNITED STATES: This 13 September 1999 file photo shows New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani (L) with Donald Trump (R) during the NYC2000 fashion show in New York City. Trump announced 07 October that he plans to form an exploratory committee to help him decide whether to seek the Reform Party nomination for president. (Photo credit should read MATT CAMPBELL/AFP/Getty Images)
NEW YORK, UNITED STATES: New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani (L) jokes with Donald Trump (R) as they take a walk down the runway during the NYC2000 fashion show in Times Square 13 September, 1999, in New York City. The show which featured more than 90 clothing designs as well as a performance by singer Trisha Yearwood was held in conjunction with the Seventh on Sixth Fashion Week Spring 2000 Collections. AFP PHOTO Matt CAMPBELL (Photo credit should read MATT CAMPBELL/AFP/Getty Images)
BRONX, NY - OCTOBER 15: Real estate magnate Donald Trump talks with former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani while current mayor Michael Bloomberg (far R) eats popcorn before the start of game 6 of the American League Championship Series between the Yankees and Boston Red Sox on October 15, 2003 at Yankee Stadium in the Bronx, New York. (Photo by Ezra Shaw/Getty Images)
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That meeting was scheduled after the Russians said they had damaging information about Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton that would be of use to the Trump campaign. The Trump-dictated statement falsely claimed the meeting was primarily about the adoption of Russian children by American families ― the same topic that Trump claimed had been the substance of a conversation he had had with Russian leader Vladimir Putin the previous evening in Germany.

The U.S. intelligence community concluded during the 2016 campaign that not only was Russia interfering in the U.S. election, but was actively trying to help Trump win.

Both Sekulow and White House press secretary Sarah Sanders claimed, falsely, that Trump had not dictated the statement, but had merely offered his son suggestions. Sanders on Sunday referred questions about the matter to Trump’s outside legal team.

Giuliani said Sekulow was misinformed about the Trump Tower meeting, which in any case was not that significant. “In this investigation, the crimes are really silly,” he said, arguing that the firing of Comey last year could not be construed as obstruction of justice because Trump had the right to fire him at any time and for any reason. “This is pure harassment, engineered by the Democrats.”

Comey had been leading the FBI probe into possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence until his dismissal, which led to the appointment of Mueller to take it over. Within two days of the firing, Trump told both NBC News and Russian officials visiting him in the Oval Office that he had done it because of the investigation.

Eisen said Giuliani’s assertion, taken to its logical conclusion, would mean that a mob boss under investigation by the FBI could give Trump a bribe to fire the FBI director, Trump could explain on television that he had done so “because of this Mafia thing,” and then not face criminal charges.

“Well, of course it would be appropriate to initiate a prosecution,” he said. “I think the legally correct answer is, as usual, the opposite of Giuliani’s answer.”

Giuliani, once the mayor of New York City and prior to that the U.S. attorney there, took charge of Trump’s outside legal team in April, saying then that he planned to wrap the whole thing up within a few weeks. Now he said he is not sure when it will end because Mueller is taking too long and not turning over material to Giuliani ― such as a report of what was learned from an FBI informant who made contact with several members of the Trump campaign with links to Russia.

Giuliani said he has so far met with Trump about 10 times and spoken to him on the phone another 40 or so times, totaling at least 75 hours of conversation. “I’m not billing by the hour, otherwise I could tell you exactly,” he joked about the case he has taken on for free.

Mueller’s investigation has so far resulted in the guilty pleas of five people, including three former Trump campaign staffers, and the indictment of 14 other people and three companies. That total includes 13 Russians, Trump’s former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, and the Internet Research Agency, a “troll farm” that was used to create and disseminate propaganda to help Trump win.

A related investigation by Giuliani’s former U.S. attorney’s office is examining the dealings of longtime Trump lawyer Michael Cohen. A former business partner has agreed to cooperate in that probe and plead to New York state charges.

33 PHOTOS
Rudy Giuliani through the years
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Rudy Giuliani through the years
Rudy Giuliani, former mayor of New York, smiles while arriving to participate in a discussion during the Values Voter Summit with Donald Trump, 2016 Republican presidential nominee, not pictured, in Washington, D.C., U.S., on Friday, Sept. 9, 2016. Trump and his running mate said this week that Russian President Vladimir Putin is a stronger leader than U.S. President Barack Obama, provoking Democratic condemnation and prompting some Republicans to distance themselves. Photographer: Andrew Harrer/Bloomberg via Getty Images
NEW YORK, NY - FEBRUARY 27: Rudolph Giuliani, US Attorney for the Southern District of New York, is photographed February 27, 1985 announcing the arrests in the 'Commission' case. A Federal racketeering indictment charged nine men with participating in a ''commission'' that governs the five organized-crime ''families'' in New York City. (Photo by Yvonne Hemsey/Getty Images)
D.A. Rudolph Giuliani at Daily News Newsmakers Conference. (Photo By: Anthony Casale/NY Daily News via Getty Images)
Koch & Giuliani, join comm. of Doi Kevin Frawley, outline the guilty pleas of six arrested in bribes. 1. Giuliani and Koch await their turn in press con at D.O.I. 80 Maiden Lane. 2. Giuliani and Koch. 3. Head to Head after Giuliani gave Koch an Excellent to a reporter's questionKoch got up to shake his hand when he was through. January 17, 1989. (Photo by Louis Liotta/New York Post Archives / (c) NYP Holdings, Inc. via Getty Images)
Giuliani holds press conference about the NYC homeless. August 01, 1989. (Photo by Dan Brinzac/New York Post Archives / (c) NYP Holdings, Inc. via Getty Images)
Guiliani at Inside Edition -- New TV personality at Inside Edition, Rudy Guiliani. Rudy Guiliani. Rudy honing up before taping of his part of the show. Rudy reviewing tapes in editing room. March 12, 1990. (Photo by Michael Schwartz/New York Post Archives / (c) NYP Holdings, Inc. via Getty Images)
Rudy Giuliani. November 05, 1993. (Photo by David Rentas/New York Post Archives / (c) NYP Holdings, Inc. via Getty Images)
UNITED STATES - JANUARY 02: Andrew Giuliani yawns as his father Rudy speaks after he was sworn in as mayor of New York City. (Photo by Budd Williams/NY Daily News Archive via Getty Images)
Rudy Giuliani. January 12, 1994. (Photo by David Rentas/New York Post Archives / (c) NYP Holdings, Inc. via Getty Images)
Police, criminal justice unions endorse Cuomo for governor on steps of City Hall. Thomas Scotto, Pres. of N.Y.C.P. detectives, endorsement assoc. was between them. October 25, 1994. (Photo by Michael Norcia/New York Post Archives / (c) NYP Holdings, Inc. via Getty Images)
(Original Caption) California governor Pete Wilson meets with New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani at city hall. (Photo by mark peterson/Corbis via Getty Images)
UNITED STATES - SEPTEMBER 26: New York Knicks' President David Checketts (left) and NBA Commissioner David Stern present Mayor Rudy Giuliani with a Giuliani 98 jersey. The 1998 NBA All-Star game will be held in New York City. (Photo by Keith Torrie/NY Daily News Archive via Getty Images)
UNITED STATES - JULY 02: Shadow of Mayor Rudy Giuliani shows against background after he was endorsed by the hotel workers union at the Waldorf-Astoria., (Photo by Susan Watts/NY Daily News Archive via Getty Images)
26 Oct 1996: New York City mayor Rudy Guilliani, George Steinbrenner, and New York Yankees manager Joe Torre celebrate after Game Six of the World Series against the Atlanta Braves at Yankee Stadium in New York City, New York. The Yankees won the game, 3-
UNITED STATES - MAY 04: Mayor Rudy Giuliani is flanked by CBS President Leslie Moonves (left) and Donald Trump at news conference at the GM Building, where CBS announced that Bryant Gumbel will be the host of its new morning news program, 'This Morning.' Show, to be launched Nov. 1, will broadcast from Trump's International Plaza Building., (Photo by Andrew Savulich/NY Daily News Archive via Getty Images)
399759 01: Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani made his first appearance on 'The Tonight Show with Jay Leno' January 16, 2002 in Burbank CA. Giulani talked about the events of September 11 and his recent selection as Time Magazine's 'Man of the Year.' (Photo by Paul Drinkwater/NBC via Getty Images)
SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE -- Episode 9 -- Air Date 12/15/2001 -- Pictured: (l-r) Tina Fey, Rudy Giuliani, Jimmy Fallon during 'Weekend Update' on December 15, 2001 (Photo by Dana Edelson/NBC/NBCU Photo Bank via Getty Images)
400517 05: Former New York City Mayor, Rudy Giuliani, gives a thumbs up to football fans before Super Bowl XXXVI February 3, 2002 in New Orleans, LA. Super Bowl XXXVI will be played by the New England Patriots and the St. Louis Rams at the Superdome in New Orleans, LA. (Photo by Jed Jacobsohn/Getty Images)
MANCHESTER, UNITED KINGDOM - JANUARY 22: Former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani smiles as he sits with copies of his book 'Leadership', published last October on January 22, 2003 in Waterstones bookshop, Deansgate, Manchester, England. The book outlines 'the principles Giuliani has worked through, and how he has adhered to them through his career, and how they came into play in the aftermath of the World Trade Centre'. (Photo by Gary M.Prior/Getty Images)
CEDAR RAPIDS, IA - JANUARY 19: Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani gestures as he takes questions from emergency personnel at a rally held to drum up support for the 2004 Bush-Cheney presidential ticket January 19, 2004 in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Iowa will be the first state in the nation to test the popularity of the Democratic presidential hopefuls when it holds the caucuses tonight. (Photo by Scott Olson/Getty Images)
UNITED STATES - DECEMBER 24: Former Mayor Rudy Giuliani kisses the hand of a little girl as he visits Hale House in Harlem on the day before Christmas to pass out gifts and read holiday stories to the children. (Photo by Susan Watts/NY Daily News Archive via Getty Images)
NEW YORK - SEPTEMBER 11: Former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani speaks as he makes a tribute to the victims of the terrorist attacks of 2001 on September 11, 2005 in New York City. This is the fourth anniversary of the September 11th attacks. (Photo by Daniel Berehulak/Getty Images)
WILKES-BARRE, PA - NOVEMBER 3: Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani (R) speaks as U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) (L) looks on at a campaign rally November 3, 2006 in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. Santorum faces Democratic challenger Bob Casey Jr. in the November election. (Photo by Jeff Fusco/Getty Images)
SPARTANBURG, SC - FEBRUARY 21: Republican presidential hopeful, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani holds a campaign rally with first responders at the North Spartanburg Fire Department on February 21, 2007 in Spartanburg, South Carolina. (Photo by Charles Ommanney/Getty Images)
HENDERSON, NV - NOVEMBER 01: Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani reacts as he is greeted by supporters at a McCain-Palin regional headquarters office November 1, 2008 in Henderson, Nevada. As candidates continue to bring out the political heavy-hitters for their last pitches, Giuliani will be campaigning in several states for Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) leading up to the election on November 4. (Photo by Ethan Miller/Getty Images)
NEW YORK - NOVEMBER 06: Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani celebrates during the New York Yankees World Series Victory Parade on November 6, 2009 in New York, New York. (Photo by Jared Wickerham/Getty Images)
LATE NIGHT WITH JIMMY FALLON -- Episode 487 -- Pictured: (l-r) Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani during an interview with Jimmy Fallon on August 8, 2011 (Photo by Lloyd Bishop/NBC/NBCU Photo Bank via Getty Images)
UNITED STATES â SEPTEMBER 6: Former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani waits to speak at the National Press Club luncheon in Washington on Tuesday, Sept. 6, 2011. (Photo By Bill Clark/Roll Call)
July 27, 2012 Former NYC Mayor Rudy Giuliani and the Republican Team Meet & Greet to Support Romney in his Presidential Campaign. Mayor Giuliani looking for support as the guest speaker in the Cuban Community of Calle Ocho - Little Havana in South FloridaFlorida (Photo by Michele Eve Sandberg/Corbis via Getty Images)
SCARBOROUGH, NY - JULY 17: Rudy Giuliani attends Joe Torre Safe At Home Foundation 2013 Golf and Tennis Classic at Sleepy Hollow Country Club on July 17, 2013 in Scarborough, New York. (Photo by Bobby Bank/Getty Images)
Florida Gov. Rick Scott and former Mayor of New York Rudy Giuliani, arrive at a campaign stop in Miami, as Scott kicks off the Get Out the Early Vote bus tour (Photo by Michele Eve Sandberg/Corbis via Getty Images)
NEW YORK, NY - APRIL 15: Former Mayor of New York City Rudy Giuliani attends the Opening Night premiere of 'Live From New York!' during the 2015 Tribeca Film Festival at the Beacon Theatre on April 15, 2015 in New York City. (Photo by Jamie McCarthy/Getty Images for the 2015 Tribeca Film Festival)
PHOENIX, AZ - AUGUST 31: Rudy Giuliani, former mayor of New York City, speaks in support of Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump during a Trump campaign rally on August 31, 2016 in Phoenix, Arizona. (Photo by Ralph Freso/Getty Images)
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