Nanny accused of killing 2 kids was in psychotic state: shrink

She knew not what she did.

That was the opinion offered by a defense expert Thursday in the trial of an Upper West Side nanny accused of slaughtering two kids in her care.

The shrink, testifying for Yoselyn Ortega's defense team, which is mounting an insanity defense, said the babysitter was in a "dissociative state" when she repeatedly stabbed and slashed Lulu and Leo Krim, 6 and 2, in their family's W. 75th St. apartment on Oct. 25, 2012.

"She wasn't in her normal conscious state where she could control her behavior or where she could form an intent to act to consciously act," Karen Rosenbaum testified on direct-examination by defense lawyer Valerie Van Leer-Greenberg.

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Yoselyn Ortega, nanny accused of killing two children
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Yoselyn Ortega, nanny accused of killing two children
Yoselyn Ortega (L), nanny who is accused of killing Lucia and Leo Krim, ages 6 and 2 respectively, arrives for a hearing for her trial at Manhattan Supreme Court in New York, July 8, 2013. Ortega was discovered with the two children and a knife as she attempted to slit her own throat but was discovered by the children's mother, Marina Krim, who was returning home with her 3-year-old daughter. REUTERS/Lucas Jackson (UNITED STATES - Tags: CRIME LAW)
A makeshift memorial is left outside the Krim family apartment in New York, October 28, 2012. A nanny, YoSelyn Ortega, had been employed by the family of Kevin and Marina Krim for two years before she killed their children and attempted suicide on Thursday in the family's luxury apartment, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said. REUTERS/Carlo Allegri (UNITED STATES)
The scene outside upper West Side apartment at W. 75th St., where nanny, Yoselyn Ortega, killed children of media executive, Kevin Krim. The children, Leo, 2 and Lucia, 6, were found in a bathtub with multiple stab wounds. (Photo by James Keivom/NY Daily News via Getty Images)
Daily News front page March 9, 2013 - Headline: SCAR FACE - Yoselyn Ortega, the nanny who allegedly ended the lives of two young children and tried to end her own life made her first public appearance in court. (Photo By: /NY Daily News via Getty Images)
NEW YORK, NY - OCTOBER 26: A woman cries after laying flowers in front of the building where two children were stabbed to death allegedly by their nanny in a family's Upper West Side apartment on October 26, 2012 in New York City. The New York Police department said that the children were discovered in a bathtub by their mother. Their nanny, Yoselyn Ortega, 50, was lying unconscious nearby with apparent self-inflicted stab wounds. As the investigation continues no charges have been filed at this time. (Photo by Spencer Platt/Getty Images)
NEW YORK, NY - OCTOBER 26: Flowers lie in front of the building where two children were stabbed to death allegedly by their nanny in a family's Upper West Side apartment on October 26, 2012 in New York City. The New York Police department said that the children were discovered in a bathtub by their mother, Marina Krim. Their nanny, Yoselyn Ortega, 50, was lying unconscious nearby with apparent self-inflicted stab wounds. As the investigation continues no charges have been filed at this time. (Photo by Spencer Platt/Getty Images)
Yoselyn Ortega (L), nanny who is accused of killing Lucia and Leo Krim, ages 6 and 2 respectively, arrives for a hearing for her trial at Manhattan Supreme Court in New York, July 8, 2013. Ortega was discovered with the two children and a knife as she attempted to slit her own throat but was discovered by the children's mother, Marina Krim, who was returning home with her 3-year-old daughter. REUTERS/Lucas Jackson (UNITED STATES - Tags: CRIME LAW)
Yoselyn Ortega (L), nanny who is accused of killing Lucia and Leo Krim, ages 6 and 2 respectively, arrives for a hearing for her trial at Manhattan Supreme Court in New York, July 8, 2013. Ortega was discovered with the two children and a knife as she attempted to slit her own throat but was discovered by the children's mother, Marina Krim, who was returning home with her 3-year-old daughter. REUTERS/Lucas Jackson (UNITED STATES - Tags: CRIME LAW)
A young girl looks at a makeshift memorial left outside the Krim family apartment in New York, October 28, 2012. A nanny, YoSelyn Ortega, had been employed by the family of Kevin and Marina Krim for two years before she killed their children and attempted suicide on Thursday in the family's luxury apartment, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said. REUTERS/Carlo Allegri (UNITED STATES)
Home of Milades Ortega, 58, sister of accused homicidal Manhattan nanny Yoselyn Ortega in the Los Alamos neighborhood of Santiago, Dominican Republic Saturday October 27, 2012. (Photo by David Handschuh/NY Daily News via Getty Images)
NEW YORK, NY - OCTOBER 26: Angel Colone prays in front of the building where two children were stabbed to death allegedly by their nanny in a family's Upper West Side apartment on October 26, 2012 in New York City. The New York Police department said that the children were discovered in a bathtub by their mother. Their nanny, Yoselyn Ortega, 50, was lying unconscious nearby with apparent self-inflicted stab wounds. As the investigation continues no charges have been filed at this time. (Photo by Spencer Platt/Getty Images)
Milades Ortega, 58, sister of accused homicidal Manhattan nanny Yoselyn Ortega,cries as she looks at photos of her sister in her Los Alamos, Dominican Republic home Saturday October 27, 2012. (Photo by David Handschuh/NY Daily News via Getty Images)
A man looks at a makeshift memorial left outside the Krim family apartment in New York, October 28, 2012. A nanny, YoSelyn Ortega, had been employed by the family of Kevin and Marina Krim for two years before she killed their children and attempted suicide on Thursday in the family's luxury apartment, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said. REUTERS/Carlo Allegri (UNITED STATES)
Journalists wait outside of the apartment building where Yoselyn Ortega lives in New York, October 26, 2012. New York police on Friday are hoping to interview the critically wounded nanny suspected of stabbing to death two children of a CNBC television executive in the family's luxury Manhattan apartment. Ortega, 50, who police say cut her own throat, has not been charged because police have not been able to interview her. REUTERS/Eduardo Munoz (UNITED STATES - Tags: CRIME LAW)
The scene outside upper West Side apartment at W. 75th St., where nanny, Yoselyn Ortega, killed children of media executive, Kevin Krim. The children, Leo, 2 and Lucia, 6, were found in a bathtub with multiple stab wounds. (Photo by James Keivom/NY Daily News via Getty Images)
A young girl looks at a makeshift memorial left outside the Krim family apartment in New York, October 28, 2012. A nanny, YoSelyn Ortega, had been employed by the family of Kevin and Marina Krim for two years before she killed their children and attempted suicide on Thursday in the family's luxury apartment, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said. REUTERS/Carlo Allegri (UNITED STATES)
A journalist knocks the door's apartment where Yoselyn Ortega lives in New York, October 26, 2012. New York police on Friday are hoping to interview the critically wounded nanny suspected of stabbing to death two children of a CNBC television executive in the family's luxury Manhattan apartment. Ortega, 50, who police say cut her own throat, has not been charged because police have not been able to interview her. REUTERS/Eduardo Munoz (UNITED STATES - Tags: CRIME LAW)
NEW YORK, NY - OCTOBER 26: A woman leaves flowers in front of the building where two children were stabbed to death allegedly by their nanny in a family's Upper West Side apartment on October 26, 2012 in New York City. The New York Police department said that the children were discovered in a bathtub by their mother, Marina Krim. Their nanny, Yoselyn Ortega, 50, was lying unconscious nearby with apparent self-inflicted stab wounds. As the investigation continues no charges have been filed at this time. (Photo by Spencer Platt/Getty Images)
NEW YORK, NY - OCTOBER 26: A woman cries after laying flowers in front of the building where two children were stabbed to death allegedly by their nanny in a family's Upper West Side apartment on October 26, 2012 in New York City. The New York Police department said that the children were discovered in a bathtub by their mother. Their nanny, Yoselyn Ortega, 50, was lying unconscious nearby with apparent self-inflicted stab wounds. As the investigation continues no charges have been filed at this time. (Photo by Spencer Platt/Getty Images)
NEW YORK, NY - OCTOBER 26: The building where two children were stabbed to death allegedly by their nanny in a family's Upper West Side apartment stands on October 26, 2012 in New York City. The New York Police department said that the children were discovered in a bathtub by their mother, Marina Krim. Their nanny, Yoselyn Ortega, 50, was lying unconscious nearby with apparent self-inflicted stab wounds. As the investigation continues no charges have been filed at this time. (Photo by Spencer Platt/Getty Images)
A family walks past a makeshift memorial left outside the Krim family apartment in New York, October 28, 2012. A nanny, YoSelyn Ortega, had been employed by the family of Kevin and Marina Krim for two years before she killed their children and attempted suicide on Thursday in the family's luxury apartment, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said. REUTERS/Carlo Allegri (UNITED STATES)
NEW YORK, NY - OCTOBER 26: Irene Dupuis lays flowers in front of the building where two children were stabbed to death allegedly by their nanny in a family's Upper West Side apartment on October 26, 2012 in New York City. The New York Police department said that the children were discovered in a bathtub by their mother, Marina Krim. Their nanny, Yoselyn Ortega, 50, was lying unconscious nearby with apparent self-inflicted stab wounds. As the investigation continues no charges have been filed at this time. (Photo by Spencer Platt/Getty Images)
Scene outside upper West Side apartment at W. 75th St., where nanny, Yoselyn Ortega, killed children of media executive, Kevin Krim. The children, Leo, 2 and Lucia, 6, were found in a bathtub with multiple stab wounds. (Photo by James Keivom/NY Daily News via Getty Images)
NEW YORK, NY - OCTOBER 26: A man leaves flowers in front of the building where two children were stabbed to death allegedly by their nanny in a family's Upper West Side apartment on October 26, 2012 in New York City. The New York Police department said that the children were discovered in a bathtub by their mother, Marina Krim. Their nanny, Yoselyn Ortega, 50, was lying unconscious nearby with apparent self-inflicted stab wounds. As the investigation continues no charges have been filed at this time. (Photo by Spencer Platt/Getty Images)
Paul J. Browne, New York City Police Department's Deputy Commissioner of Public Information, speaks outside upper West Side apartment at W. 75th St., where nanny, Yoselyn Ortega, killed children of media executive, Kevin Krim. The children, Leo, 2 and Lucia, 6, were found in a bathtub with multiple stab wounds. (Photo by James Keivom/NY Daily News via Getty Images)
NEW YORK, NY - OCTOBER 26: People walk by flowers and messages that have been left in front of the building where two children were stabbed to death allegedly by their nanny in a family's Upper West Side apartment on October 26, 2012 in New York City. The New York Police department said that the children were discovered in a bathtub by their mother, Marina Krim. Their nanny, Yoselyn Ortega, 50, was lying unconscious nearby with apparent self-inflicted stab wounds. As the investigation continues no charges have been filed at this time. (Photo by Spencer Platt/Getty Images)
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"She was in a dissociative state and a psychotic state and wasn't aware of her actions."

Ortega's lawyer has argued to the jury that the former child caretaker should be found not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect.

Rosenbaum said that in her "medical opinion" Ortega couldn't form a conscious objective or intent to murder the Krim children.

Rosenbaum pointed to Ortega's repeated claims to her that she was hearing voices prior to the tragedy and that the "devil" eventually told her to murder the children and take her own life.

Lulu was stabbed and cut about 30 times as she tried to fend off the unimaginable attack and Leo, who was too little to resist, had five knife wounds.

Ortega plunged one of the two kitchen knives she used into her own throat but failed to strike the jugular vein and survived her severe injuries.

Rosenbaum said she didn't believe Ortega was faking her symptoms or lying about the voices overtaking her mind.

The voices got "stronger" and shortly before the attack they were "telling her to kill herself and to kill the children," she recalled.

Rosenbaum argued there was no other explanation besides insanity.

"She loved the children. She had always talked about loving the children," Rosenbaum said. “She would put the children on the phone with (her own son) and say your brother and sister want to talk to you.”

She said that Ortega's family and friends said she liked the Krims.

"There was no reason why she should want to hurt anybody other than the psychotic delusions that she was experiencing," she added.

Prosecutors are expected to grill Rosenbaum on her findings, which are based largely on Ortega's self-reporting of her symptoms over 13 interviews.

The district attorney argues that Ortega was acting out of spite against the children's mother Marina Krim, who she grew to resent over the two-year period she worked under her supervision.

Cross-examination begins Thursday afternoon.

Ortega faces life behind bars if convicted of murder. If she's found not responsible, she'll likely spend the rest of her life in a mental institution.

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